Rapture: what kind of "Trib" are we talking about? Will a Christians be left behind in the tribulation or will they be raptured before it? There are three theories about this: 1) Pre-Trib - the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation starts, and believers will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air and escape the Tribulation; 2) Mid-Trib - the Rapture occurs in the middle of the Tribulation; so believers miss the worst of it; 3) Post-Trib - the Rapture occurs AFTER the Tribulation and we all have to go thru all the pain, etc, mark of the beast and so on. My studies lean towards pre-trib, but there are persuasive arguments for all positions, and NO ONE knows for sure. The best thing is to BE READY for whatever comes. I think it was John Hagee, that said, "I believe in PAN Trib - He's coming and I'm going and it's all gonna PAN out!" I think a more important consideration should be - While I'm here, what does the Lord want me to be doing???? That's what I major in. It seems to me that a lot of people get all caught up in arguments about raptures, and 666, and prophecy, and neglect that parts of Holy Scripture that we CAN understand and obey. The word "Rapture" does not occur in the English translations of the Bible. But in the Latin Vulgate, the term "rapturio" occurs to describe the events in I Thessalonians 4:13- 18: "Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left WILL BE CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words. " WILL BE CAUGHT UP is one word in the Greek, harpazo {har-pad'-zo} and is translated catch up, take by force, catch away, or pluck in the English, and as I said, "rapturio" in the Latin, and this is where the term "Rapture" comes from. Reading on to chapter 5, Paul discusses the concern of when this will occur, and basically says, don't worry about it: I Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. Wrath in the Greek is orge {or-gay'} here meaning the anger of God exhibited in punishment for those judged guilty in a court of law. The Great Tribulation is God's wrath poured out on the world because of sin and rejection of Christ - but we as believers DO NOT HAVE AN APPOINTMENT FOR WRATH - this is why I believe that we will be raptured - or gathered together in Christ - BEFORE the Great Tribulation occurs. Some of the confusion about these things occurs because of not understanding the difference between the Rapture - our gathering together unto Jesus in the air which comes like a "thief in the night" - and the Day of the Lord - or the Day of Judgement, which comes after the Great Tribulation, Antichrist, mark of the beast, etc., in which every eye will see Him. In 2 Thessalonians 2 we are told that the AntiChrist, or man of lawlessness, cannot be revealed, until the "restrainer" or "hinderer of lawlessness" is taken out of the way. And the only thing we know of in the New Testament that is going to be "taken out of the way" is the Church at the Rapture. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till HE is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. Notice that this says that the Thessalonians KNEW what was holding the AntiChrist back - what did the Thessalonians already know about? Well the first letter to them from Paul told them about the Rapture of the Church, and the Church is the only hinderer of lawlessness that is to be taken out of the world. There are three hinderers of lawlessness mentioned in the NT: the government, the Holy Spirit and the Church. The Holy Spirit was given to abide here forever, and will bring many to Christ DURING the Great Tribulation (see Revelation 7:14), therefore, He ain't going anywhere. (We might have tribulation here, meaning troubles and trials, but that is distinct from the GREAT Tribulation that comes after the AntiChrist begins to rule.) The AntiChrist will rule over men and the existing governments, therefore government is not going to cease. This only leaves the Church as the "he" who hinders lawlessness that is going to be taken away. The church is called a man (Ephesians 2:15, 4:13 KJV) and the body of Christ, who is male, thus "HE" refers to the church. Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new MAN, so making peace; Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect MAN, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ And since "HE" who hinders lawlessness will be taken away BEFORE AntiChrist is revealed - and the Great Tribulation following - then the Rapture is Pre- Tribulation. When does the Rapture occur in the Book of Revelation then? Revelation 4:1-2 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. Notice it says "After this" - what is that referring to? After John saw the vision of Jesus walking among the seven Churches of Asia - which were contemporary with John (present tense), then John saw a door open in Heaven. Well, for Jesus to come to get us, He'd have to go OUT of the open door, right? Then John heard the voice of the trumpet - what are we told elsewhere that will announce the rapture? A trumpet. Then John hears "Come up hither". What do you think Jesus is going to shout at His Church? Come up here! Glory! I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. Notice then in Revelation 4:2 that John is immediately (in the twinkling of an eye) in the presence of God! Then John is shown what will be "hereafter", which goes into the Antichrist, Great Tribulation, etc. Glory! Lord I want to be found working for you at your Coming and ready to let loose of this earth and fly! Praise the Lord. OK, some of you will not agree with the Pre-Trib Rapture. BUT the important thing, is just love the Lord and serve Him TODAY and let Him sort out the details of what happens tomorrow. All files c1998 Karleen E. Page, All Rights Reserved. ONE copy may be printed or copied to your PC for personal use only. Please email for any other permissions. Thank You. Posted at Ask OldTimer www.members.tripod.com/~KarleenP/text/askoldtimer.htm