Bible Study Notes:

Holy Spirit, we rejoice that you are our teacher. Help us focus on the lesson and learn deep things from the Word. In Jesus Name AMEN. Father God we ask that you help us all stay connected tonight. You are Lord of everything, even cyberspace! Allow your children to feast on your Word. AMEN

We have been doing a series of lessons on spiritual warfare. Last time we spoke about the weapon of discernment. We talked about the fact that discernment, the ability to distinguish good from evil, is a skill that is developed as it is used, and as we are led by the Holy Spirit.

We also talked about using discernment to keep us from error, and using the Gift of Discernment to identify the spiritual forces or evil spirits that might be operating in another's life.

The purpose for this is to give us insight for prayer and to protect us, NEVER to harm the other person (as in gossiping about them, etc.) We also spent some time talking about characteristics of false doctrine found in passages such as I John 4 , Colossians 2, I Timothy 4 and 2 Peter 2.

I'd just like to clear up a couple of loose ends before we continue. First of all, we frequently have people coming into chat proclaiming "If you don't belong to MY group (whatever it's called), you will be lost!!! We are the only TRUE church!" What pride, what arrogance, what presumption!

It is not belonging to a certain group that brings you salvation, it's belonging to the Lord Jesus Christ! The TRUE church is composed of ALL who have trusted in Christ for salvation, yes, even those with weird doctrines. For we are saved by grace through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast.

Which brings up a second point. If you ARE deceived, how do you know it? Or to put it another way, how can you be SURE that you are believing in the truth, and not a lie, or a partial lie?

((((star)))) - Good question OldTimer

The ONLY way to keep from deception is to pray, read the Word, pray, read the Word, pray, read the Word - and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth. Ultimately you must appear before the judgement seat of Christ and answer for your deeds done in the flesh, including allowing yourself to be deceived. If you allow someone else, no matter how saintly or righteous they may appear to be, do you thinking for you, you are subject to deception.

mercy - amen

The Bible clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is your teacher, and you should not let any man or woman take His place. This is not to say, of course, that you shouldn't do Bible Studies like this one, just test everything that is taught BY THE WORD. I am not your final authority, the WORD IS.

Tonight we are taking a slightly different approach to spiritual warfare. The topic is "The Good News About Bad News!" When your road turns towards hardship, does this mean you are out of God's will for your life? Does suffering mean you have been rejected by God?

Torahboy - No...even Job's suffering was willed by God

Hebrews 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "NEVER WILL I LEAVE YOU; NEVER WILL I FORSAKE YOU."

The Bible makes it very clear that suffering is part of the Christian life to prepare us to enter the Kingdom. Paul ENCOURAGED young churches by telling them that we must go through MANY hardships to enter the kingdom of God. Why would this BAD NEWS be an encouragement to believers?

Philippians 1:27-28 Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved--and that by God.

Now suffering is not an excuse to act ugly or to whine. Paul says "conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ". We must stand firm IN ONE SPIRIT, fighting as one man, or in unity for the gospel, and not let those who oppose us frighten us. Acting worthy of Christ AND fighting in unity is a sign that we WILL be saved by God.

In fact, suffering is a PRIVILEDGE, according to Paul, that is granted to us, as a gift! The struggles that we go through for Jesus are a working out of God's grace in our lives.

"Granted" is charizomai {khar-id'-zom-ahee} meaning to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favor to, gratify, to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent, to grant forgiveness, to pardon, to give graciously, give freely, bestow, to forgive, graciously to restore one to another, or to preserve for one a person in peril. This comes from the same root as "charis" which means gift, and is used in reference to spiritual gifts.

Suffering is not a sign of sinfulness or immaturity in Christ, it is a sharing of Christ's sufferings so we can share in His glory. In fact the glory that will be revealed in us will be so wonderful, our present sufferings are not worth comparing to it.

Do the math: Today I stumped my toe, OUCH! But in glory I will walk on streets of gold and have toes that are unstumpable!!!! Op wants to know what unstumpable means! LOL Well you won't be able to bruise your toes in Heaven.

OlePappy - OK, I gotcha. hehehe

And whatever bruises we do get here will be long gone when we get there. Maybe a silly example - but I stumped my toe once on asphalt and gravels when I was a kid, and the memory still hurts!

To suffer with is sumpascho {soom-pas'-kho} meaning to suffer or feel pain together, or to suffer evils (troubles, persecutions) in the like manner with another. We do not suffer alone - Jesus is our partner in any hardship we face. Isn't that wonderful? And doesn't that take the "edge" off our pain to know Jesus is right there with us, helping us?

SealedNHim - Doesn't God want us to have abundant life on earth as well as in heaven?

Seald that's a good question! And the answer is YES! But that doesn't deny the fact that we all go through times of suffering to get there. Notice I said go THROUGH - meaning constant suffering is not the mark of a Christian life... For the Christian, there is a beginning and an end to the suffering, and a purpose for it.

Notice that James says WHEN not IF you face trials... Suffering is a gift from God because He wants us to be mature and complete, not lacking anything. When our faith is tested, we develop perseverance which leads to maturity.

guitarman524 - Amen OT, the worse things seem to get the closer I seem to get to God

Kind of like having a vaccination - it's painful but protects us from disease. I never will forget going to a doctor, and in the next room was a small boy who had had a bicycle wreck. This child's knees were full of tiny gravels and he screamed every time the doctor picked on out. But if the doctor had left them in, infection would have occurred and the boy could have lost his legs.

Justme - and face it.... some of us were pretty beat up & bad infected when we got adopted into His kingdom.....
OlePappy - yep, got that right JM

1 Peter 1:6-7 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

Right Justme! I used to be a VERY lazy Christian. I wanted to float on flowery beds of ease, just being happy ... but the problem is, we have an enemy who is trying to devour us ... and guess who he goes after first? The lazy, hazy ones...

To God, the condition of our faith is the primary thing. Faith is worth more than gold - which itself is not eternal. Your faith is eternal, and needs development. This is why God allows trials and suffering: to refine our faith, removing the impurities, the doubts, the falsehoods, the fears and doubts that hide the gold of it.

Trials also "prove" our faith, or show us that it is genuine. Suffering is a great locator of your faith. When Jesus was asleep in the boat, and the disciples fearfully woke Him to still the storm, Jesus said, "Where is YOUR faith?" Trials are an opportunity to put into practice what we profess to believe.

Or trials show up the imperfections and shortcomings of our faith. Another time when the disciples failed to cast a demon out of a boy, Jesus declared, "O you of LITTLE faith!" The disciples had some faith, but not enough, although they should have had the faith after being with Jesus and being given His authority over all the power of the enemy.

Justme - good point, OT..... God doesn't prove to Himself our faith..... He proves to us..... He already knows what's there, cuz He gave it to us in the first place.....

I Peter 4:12-13 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

Hardship or suffering is not something strange or abnormal to the Christian life. Trials shouldn't "take us by surprise". Instead we should be prepared for them, and not only that, REJOICE in them! The greater your sufferings, the greater you should rejoice. And the greater glory will be revealed in you!

American Christianity preaches an "easy believe-ism" that ignores the role of suffering in the believer's life. So when difficulties come, the believer is shocked and dismayed, and will often fall away from the faith, because he is not prepared to receive them, or even expect them.

Justme - amen, OT.... oh amen......

Nettleton*, a reporter for Religion Today says: "Persecution is like vitamins for the church," a church leader in Saudi Arabia told Nettleton. There are no hangers-on or shallow Christians, because the price believers pay for their faith is too high."

"They don't go to church because their friends are there or because they want to have fun. They are there because they want to live their faith, and the church is exploding because of it." Christians in persecuted countries are focused on living their faith rather than changing their circumstances, Nettleton said.

guitarman524 - In the early Church persecution is what lead to the spread of Christianity

It's against the law to be a Christian in Pakistan, and you WILL be persecuted for it, and probably killed. It is against the law in China to belong to any church except the state sponsored one. Many pastors and believers have been arrested, their goods confiscated, put in jail, tortured and even executed because they refuse to let the government govern their relationship with Christ. Even in the worst of times, we have it easy here. Maybe too easy - we whine when we should SHINE.

Hebrews 12:2-Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Torahboy - the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church
guitarman524 - Buts is those type of situations that make beleivers stronger and leads to spread of the Gospell

Amen TB and gman!!! When the topic of suffering comes up, we need to consider what Jesus suffered and how He suffered, for He is our example. If we fix our eyes on JESUS, gazing intently upon Him, instead of our suffering, we will be filled with joy as He was. He endured the cross, not caring how shameful it was, and won our salvation.

I have heard many testimonies about how someone's patient endurance of hardship was encouragement and inspiration for others to come to Christ. So it is inevitable that we WILL suffer sooner or later. The important thing is that we endure suffering with JOY like Jesus did.

OlePappy - yes, Thank You Father
guitarman524 - amen OT

Thinking about "scorning the shame", a lot of times when I suffer, I tend to blame myself for it, thinking there must be something lacking in my life because I feel like a failure, or like I am "letting someone down" because of the difficulties. However, what is the point in "beating yourself up about it" when you suffer? This plays right into the hands of the devil, who is using it as an invitation to a "pity party". We need to "scorn the shame", and not feel less of a Christian because of a hardship or trial.

Sadly sometimes our "Christian" brothers and sisters are the first to condemn us when we go through hardship - again preaching an easy life without any trials or suffering that we simply aren't promised here. Sometimes those who suffer are looked down upon as not being very "spiritual" or not having enough faith. God help us to QUIT shooting our own wounded!

guitarman524 - But OT we also can find strength in our Christian bros. and sis.
Rolling Thunder - the church is good at shooting its wounded

Oh YES Gman, and I often have! Wasn't condemning everybody by any means. But even one episode of "friendly fire" is one too many!

OlePappy - it is not the church that shoots their wounded it the people in it . Those who have lost sight of what would Jesus do
guitarman524 - Amen Pappy
Rolling Thunder - good point

Amen OP, look at the lengths Jesus went to redeem Peter! Look at the lengths He went to redeem us all with His own blood!

Hebrews 5:7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

Now the writer of Hebrews says that Jesus' prayers WERE heard, but He still died for us. How did God answer Jesus prayers if Jesus still had to die?

First of all, God heard Jesus' anguish and suffering and sent an angel to strengthen Jesus for the task that lay ahead. Secondly, Jesus prayed most of all that God's will be done. And although God hated the fact that Jesus had to suffer, His will was that all men might be saved, and Jesus' death was the only thing that would accomplish that. So God answered the prayer to fulfill His will in Jesus' death. And also the praying that caused Jesus to sweat drops of blood further strengthened Him for the task ahead.

Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Although Jesus is God's Son and lived a sinless life, He still learned obedience from the things He suffered. Learned is manthano {man-than'-o} meaning to learn, be appraised, to increase one's knowledge, to be increased in knowledge, to hear, be informed, to learn by use and practice, to be in the habit of, accustomed to.

Obedience is hupakoe {hoop-ak-o-ay'} meaning obedience, compliance, submission, and obedience rendered to anyone's counsels, an obedience shown in observing the requirements of Christianity.

This comes from the root word hupakouo {hoop-ak-oo'-o} meaning to listen, to harken, of the duty of a porter to listen to who is knocking on the door, to harken to a command and to obey, be obedient to, submit to.

Suffer here is pascho {pas'-kho} meaning to be affected or have been affected, to feel, have a sensible experience, to undergo in a bad sense, to suffer sadly, be in a bad plight, of a sick person.

"Being made perfect " is teleioo {tel-i-o'-o} meaning to make perfect, complete, to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end , to complete (perfect), add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full , to be found perfect, to bring to the end (goal) proposed, to accomplish, bring to a close or fulfillment by event the prophecies of the scriptures.

So as Jesus went through bad experiences, or suffering, He listened to what God had to teach Him about it, and by listening to God, He became perfect, mature, complete, accomplished. "It is finished", He said on the cross. He was able to accomplish God's goals as Savior of mankind by learning obedience through suffering.

Why did the Son of God need to learn obedience? He didn't, as the Son OF GOD Jesus was perfect in obedience. That is why He came to the earth in the first place, to obey God's will. Yet as the Son of Man, in the flesh, He needed the training to perfect that obedience unto death to become the sacrifice for our sins.

Justme - when find myself grumbling or complaining, I know that my eyes are on myself instead of my Lord.....

Amen Justme, and don't you just have to pinch yourself and say, "Self, stop that! Fix your gaze upon Jesus!"? I know I do!

Justme - Amen, OT
OlePappy - been there JM...lots

If Jesus needed His flesh trained through suffering to learn obedience, HOW MUCH MORE do we??? Therefore, we need to complete our "quota of suffering" so to speak, not only to learn obedience, but to complete what is needed in suffering for the sake of the Church, Christ's body. This too is an occasion for rejoicing.

"What is still lacking" in the Greek is husterema {hoos-ter'-ay-mah} meaning deficiency, that which is lacking, in reference to property and resources, poverty, want, destitution.

Paul is saying that there is a poverty of necessary suffering in the Church. We in America love our "creature comforts", don't we? How many of us would prefer the deprivations that Paul suffered for the sake of the Gospel? There is still a poverty of suffering in the Church today, as many are lost and few are willing to suffer for the salvation of their souls.

guitarman524 - I watch the kids wear the WWJD stuff and started asking myself the same question! I now wear a WWJD necklace!
OlePappy - WWJD needs to be written on the inside of our eyelids
guitarman524 - AMEN but i keep it close to my heart
Torahboy - Would Jesus wear a WWJD bracelet??

And what little suffering we do endure, we whine and complain, take pain killers and tranquilizers, and "try to worm our way out of it". Christians in other parts of the world have few options. Again, according to Religion Today:

"Persecution of Christians increased in the last year, Nettleton said. Christians in Muslim countries are in the greatest danger. Christianity is outlawed altogether in Saudi Arabia; other Muslim nations rely on Islamic Shari'a law to restrict Christian worship and evangelism, and often ignore incidents of violence against Christians. Communist nations such has Vietnam, China, and Cuba continue to punish Christians, but by and large "the face of persecution has changed from communism to Islam," Nettleton said. "

"Nettleton remarks: In Bangladesh, friends and family disown Christians who convert from Islam. A shopkeeper who displays Christian materials has been robbed and threatened with beatings. When he distributed the books in a nearby village, Muslims threatened to cut off his feet so he could not travel, VOM said. Christians are banned from public water wells because they might "contaminate" the water and are forced to walk several miles for water. "

VOM stands for a ministry called "Voice of the Martyrs", to remind us of the suffering church and minister to them, primarily with prayer. Addy is http://www.vom.org .

Since Jesus Christ was willing to suffer to buy our salvation, and since He is our example, it follows that we need to be willing to suffer, if and when it is needed. It is a part of our calling in Christ - it is inseparable from our vocation, ministry and walk with Christ.

How often do you hear sermons on this topic? I'm afraid we've had prosperity preached so much that we gag on this one! But Christ suffered, we should walk IN HIS STEPS... and HIS steps led to the cross.

Philippians 3:10-11 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Suffering is an active participation, fellowship, sharing and communion with Christ, and a way to activate the power of the cross in our life. When we suffer for Christ, He is right there with us, mortifying or putting to death the power of the flesh in our life. And as we identify with Him in death, so we shall be raised with Him to eternal life.

Torahboy - C. S. Lewis spoke some on the subject of suffering

Right TB, and I highly recommend "The Problem of Pain". My fav quote is "Pain is God's megaphone to rouse a lost and dying world".

The great apostle Paul resolved to know nothing, but Christ and Him crucified. The cross was his constant topic of meditation. Spurgeon, that great evangelist, always managed to have the theme of the cross in his sermons. It follows then, that we should pay more attention to this topic. Jesus on the cross...

HALO† - OldTimer,,,I have been watching but hadn't logged on till now,,the sufferings that these people in other countries are going through because they are Christians ,,How many Americans , as pampered and spoiled as we are, do you think would suffer these things for Christ ,,I am afraid many Americans would renounce their belief in Jesus, just to continue in their comfortable lives and ease ,,I pray I am wrong, but Americans have had it so easy,, they would faint in this kind of adversity I am afraid>>>
OlePappy - HALO, I am afraid you are right

Halo, I have often wondered how I would react under such pressure, and pray for the grace to confirm my faith with my blood, if need be!

AMPLIFIED 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 But He said to me, My grace - My favor and loving-kindness and mercy, are enough for you, [that is] sufficient against any danger and to enable you to bear the trouble manfully]; for My strength and power are made perfect - fulfilled and completed and show themselves most effective - in [your] weakness.

Therefore I will all the more gladly glory in my weaknesses and infirmities, that the strength and power of Christ, the Messiah, may rest - yes, may pitch a tent [over] and dwell - upon me!

Glory! So the next time you are suffering through a trial, a difficulty, a weakness, an infirmity - whatever negative events assail you, allow the divine strength of the Lord Jesus Christ to pitch a tent over you and dwell with you! In your weakness, HIS strength is made perfect. Hallelujah!

The good news is not that we have troubles, or that they are many, but that the Lord delivers us from them all! So the more troubles you have, the more deliverance is available if you are in right relationship with God.

I Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

"Arm" here is hoplizo {hop-lid'-zo} meaning to arm, furnish with arms, to provide, to furnish one's self with a thing (as with arms) and metaphorically to take on the same mind. Recall that "hoplon" means weapon.

"Attitude" is ennoia {en'-noy-ah} meaning the act of thinking, consideration, meditation, a thought, notion, conception, mind, understanding, will, manner of feeling, and thinking. If we arm ourselves with the attitude, mind, understanding, manner of thinking and feeling that Jesus had, we will be victorious over the enemy of our souls.

Another attribute of suffering is that it cleanses us from sin and makes us be done with it. We learn the consequences of following our lusts - which eventually leads to suffering of some kind or another - and no longer live for them, but seek to live for the will of God.

When we don't take on the attitude or mind of Christ, we are UNarmed, defenseless against conflict, suffering and persecution. Then we will REACT to the situation through shock, offense, vengeance, wrath, bitterness and doubting. But if we are ARMED to expect suffering, we will receive it with rejoicing, knowing all of the good character traits that it is developing in us.

If we have Christ's attitude towards suffering, it leads to endurance, then character, then hope, and then our hearts are able to receive the outpouring of love through the Holy Spirit.

1 Timothy 4:8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

Amen de!!! A soldier is trained physically to prepare for long marches, rough terrain, and minimal living conditions. Likewise, as soldiers of Christ Jesus, we need to train ourselves for hardships with godliness, which promises us victory in this life and the life to come.

Christianity is not for "wimps". The conflict we are engaged in is even tougher because the enemy is unseen, yet deadly. Suffering is part of the territory. Arm yourself with the mind of Christ and be ready for it. The good news about bad news is that GLORY is on the way. So rejoice! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord. I pray that this study will help you understand suffering a bit more and rejoice in it!

Justme - Hallelujah, OT.... another Word in due season... Thank the Lord for not forgetting us, eh?
HALO† - Old Timer, those attacks are even more difficult to take when they come from those of your own household,,, the enemy working through loved ones is so difficult to take,,,
vanca - is it the same as the chastisement of the Lord as spoken of in Hebrews?
Torahboy - When I am not experiencing suffering, then I know something is wrong in my spiritual life. When my life becomes complacent, the suffering ceases
OlePappy - suffering WILL come, love Jesus and be prepared

Father we lift up Halo right now in the powerful mighty Name of Jesus. Help her in her sufferings, mature her faith as gold, and claim the victory in Jesus Name!

Remember, when sufferings, trials, etc. come, that God ALLOWS them to happen to perfect your faith, which is more precious than gold, and to strengthen you with might on the inner man. As you look to the Lord with faith, you become OVERcomers, not overCOME by the circumstances.

Remember also to meditate on the cross of Christ and what it means to us... to participate in Christ's sufferings, and to be willing to suffer, if need be, to win the lost.

mom of five - For from trials and tribulation..............patience
HALO† - When, if ever, do these sufferings and persecutions come to an end,,, never mind,, I already know the answer,, when we die,, and leave this world
Rolling Thunder - we need more teaching on suffering in our churches

Halo, yes, we will be "suffering-free" when we get to glory! ARM your self for battle with the mind of Christ. Have the same attitude that He had about suffering. Also remember those who are suffering and help them bear their burdens in the Lord.

Remember the REASON for trials - to develop and test our faith, so that we may be mature LACKING NOTHING.